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Poster: dark.starz Date: Nov 4, 2012 9:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I simply cannot fathom why any rational thinking American (especially in this forum) would cast a vote for the multi-national corporations, the domestic 1% and their puppet Mitt Romney who they’ve engineered and groomed over the last several years, other than a member of the aforementioned group. Romney’s flip-flopping on every major issue over the course of the last year and his tax plan response, “we’ll make it up as we go” should be painfully obvious that this phoney has moved from right to center on every issue with the exception of women’s rights and same sex marriage. These are not the hallmarks of an independent thinker or a potential leader of the free world.

It took a decade of depression and engineering social programs to begin to level out the ramifications of the great depression and it wasn’t until the war effort began after Dec 7th, 1941 that domestic production ramped up in service of the world wide military effort. The real growth of that recovery didn’t begin until the late 40's and 50's. If memory serves me well the Dow Jones Industrial Average was 6500 in March of 2009 and today it’s over 13,000 so how is it possible not to call this a recovery with all the other salvation's and growth statistics from the fallout of the great collapse and recession in the fall of 2008? Yes, dropping serious coin towards this reversal of Obama's inheritance was necessary and calculated and can you imagine where we’d be today if McCain and Palin had been elected in 2008?

Obama’s foreign policy work has been nothing short of admirable particularly in comparison to the previous Republican war mongers, Nixon -> Cheney -> Bush. Yes, this Defense administration led by Gates and Panetta are evolving military strategies and covert operations have been a mainstay US strategy in the past and remain the battleground of the future (unless we are invaded or attacked) with hopefully less activity in toppling governments and more focus on the elimination of jihad terrorist groups, coalitions, rouge nations and cyber-terrorism. Not quite as visible as Reagan's Iran-Contra blunder, the virus recently dumped into Iran’s nuclear facility was clever engineering.

I’ve stated this before, you don’t change Washington, Washington changes you, and all things considered Obama is a politician with a pulse, mind, heart and soul. Politicians perform political work towards their agenda and the clear choice here is the difference between the 1% and a social conscience. I sometimes get that the energy behind Mitt is Mrs Romney's obvious fantasy with residency at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and the opportunity to extend her social club. I guess Mormons are just like Catholics, they lie, cheat and scam all week and then show up at church on Sundays to beg forgiveness.

It’s bloody shameful the two billion dollars these two parties have wasted over the course of this election process. That money placed into a trust or foundation to support numerous causes in this country would have been heaven sent and is the antithesis of the great philanthropic work of folks such as Buffet, Gates and Lucas. The only winners in this game to date are the various media outlets and can’t possibly imagine how a purse this size could influence their political persuasions, yeah right!

Oh well, capitalism at its finest and it’s the life we choose and i’ll choose to respect Abraham Lincoln and Jerry Garcia over Ayn Rand and Mitt Romney any day of the week!


Red and white blue suede shoes indeed ) -:

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Nov 5, 2012 6:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I don't often get involved with political discussions with friends and family, nor do I often pay much heed to the majority of your posts... but I agree with your basic thrust. A vote for Romney is a vote against women, a vote to defraud and disenfranchise the vast majority of Americans, a vote against reason, a vote to return to failed and disastrous economic and geopolitical strategies, a vote against the environment, a vote contrary to your own self-interest, a vote in hopes that the "confidence fairy" will wave a magic wand and makes things right. The system ain't great, but it's all we got. Obama has made mistakes, but I respect him for his intelligence, his cool under pressure and ability to weigh the issues.

I can't ignore your ignorant comments regarding Catholics and Mormons - you spoiled an otherwise fruitful post with that moronic pile of steaming poo.

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Nov 5, 2012 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I love how no Obama supporter has touched Mando's post! Can't defend the truth I guess, but I thought Bush tokk away all our civil liberties with the Patriot Act, what Mando has laid out is much worse than the all dreadful Patriot Act!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Nov 5, 2012 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Firstly, I would argue that anyone who cites NDAA correctly, as the clusterfucking nightmare that it is, should first of all be objecting that We are NOW a Nation Who Tortures People and Condones IT! If I'm gonna be rounded up, disappeared by my own country, and never see the light of day again, I sure as shit don't want to be tortured by anybody. It's common sense to me that committing torture is our worst mistake, not to mention that torture is a serious crime.

Lastly, here's our two even-bigger blunders that Bill Clinton committed, which really got the ball rolling downhill-FAST, and Game Over soon:
1) Bill Clinton signed the Telecommuncations Act of 1996 into law, forever changing our newsmedia. No more reporting news ever again.

2) Bill Clinton signed the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Financial Modernization Act of 1999 (repeal of the Glass–Steagall banking reform act of 1933) into law, forever changing our banking system. Now there's no regulations for trillions of dollars of derivatives being traded in Wall Street betting parlors. All information about over-the-counter derivatives trading is proprietary, and it's kept secret, and the U.S. Government insures their losses now.
So, "to do a Sheeple-compromise" for you, we have an encore political performance by Billary. What could this possibly be? Slick-Willie is campaigning for Obama, and we'll be having Hillary in the White House in 2016!

dead-head_Monte-clinton.gif

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Nov 5, 2012 12:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Billary campaign slogan
Blow Me in 2016

tigerbolt-billaryport.jpg

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Nov 5, 2012 11:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I would also note that no Romney supporter has flown to the ramparts as of this post. The NDAA is as vile and indefensible as the Patriot Act. (Notice how Bush was hidden under a rock throughout this campaign year?) I'll bet that not even .01% of Americans know jack-squat about NDAA. I have been enlightened today by Mando, a true patriot.

If you focus on only one issue, like NDAA or abortion (which doesn't belong in the political arena), you lose sight of the forest for the trees.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 11:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Mando IS the man! I'm a dwizzle-twit in comparison.

Imho, this picture is more the truth

Attachment: 579106_492754260746757_180714433_n.jpg

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Nov 5, 2012 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

“Terrorism has replaced Communism as the rationale for the militarization of the country [America], for military adventures abroad, and for the suppression of civil liberties at home. It serves the same purpose, serving to create hysteria.” Howard Zinn


Every single person who voted to approve the 2012 NDAA should be brought to trail for treason. Every single Republican/Democrat Senator or Representative that voted for it along with the final signer himself. This is treason!

and here they are:

http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/37467

http://www.ibtimes.com/ndaa-bill-how-did-your-senator-vote-386198

Just about every Republuican was right on board with this thing...so someone please explain to me how voting Romney is going to fix this, or how voting McCain in 2008 would have stopped this. Strawman argument against Obama, get a real one and I'll listen intently as I see him as just as big a criminal as Mitt and the rest of our elected officials.

so in the end it really is just about abortion...because everything else is a wash...and really so is that one as you are going to have to try really hard to convince me that Mitt wants them dirty poor folks to stop having abortions...I don't hold any faith in his or any other politicians religious "claims" as it is all about getting the uninformed vote...

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Nov 5, 2012 1:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I really like this one:

http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/37420

again, explain how Republicans are not as bad as the President in regard to this black and white topic.

this is a great place to see who the hypocrits are:

http://votesmart.org/bills/NA/2011/13

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Nov 5, 2012 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

very cool site, thanks. More education today.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 5, 2012 11:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I agree, voting for either of these clowns is voting for the status quo which is leading us to a fascist plutocracy. Both these candidates are heavily indebted to Corporate interests including Big Pharma, Big Oil and the Military Industrial Complex.
However Romney is a particularly reprehensible candidate.
I voted for Jill Stein

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Poster: Round Robin Date: Nov 5, 2012 3:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I'm from the UK and its disappointing how much support Romney has. Its not surprising though, its the same country who voted for George W Bush twice.

I don't think the US will ever lose that 'dumb' stereotype its had for so long now when such a large amount of people prefer Romney to Obama.

If there's anyone voting for Romney here, please tell me your thoughts on his fake Hurricane Sandy Relief Event,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTgWs2kYCyc

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 5, 2012 4:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

“If there's anyone voting for Romney here, please tell me your thoughts on his fake Hurricane Sandy Relief Event,”

To me, it's totally irrelevant, as are the majority of the things both parties are bashing each other for. I care about getting this country back on the right track. I'm not really fond of either candidate, but it's pretty obvious to me that Obama is not the right person. No offense meant by this, but I can imagine it's more difficult to assess the state of this country for you, seeing as you don't live here. I have seen first hand, the increase in lazy attitudes and the growing sense of entitlement among my peers, and I HATE the trend I'm seeing. WAY too many people looking for free handouts. I hate a lot of what I've seen during his presidency and I strongly disapprove of the job Obama has done. Mitt isn't my ideal candidate, but at least he has some experience and brings something different to the table. I disagree with some of his policies, but overall the economy is the most important issue to me and the majority of Americans. With regards to that issue, I believe Romney is more likely to get us back on track quicker. I thought I could stay out of these discussions, but I sometimes just can't help myself. Same story with Koch, and some other trolls lol.

And keep up your blog man. Great stuff.

This post was modified by rdenirojb87 on 2012-11-05 12:50:19

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Poster: Round Robin Date: Nov 5, 2012 4:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

You're right, living there you've got a much better sense of it all. Interesting to hear about the attitudes and entitlement you mention.

I had my files taken down and lost my enthusiasm for the blog. Maybe I'll kick start it again, I'd like to.

Damn it, you've done it now! I'll re-upload some files and see what happens!

This post was modified by Round Robin on 2012-11-05 12:55:30

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Nov 5, 2012 5:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

"I had my files taken down and lost my enthusiasm for the blog"

Ahah! Just the type of laziness I was referring to :P

That would be great if you started it back up again. Let me know if you do.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 5, 2012 8:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

"I have seen first hand, the increase in lazy attitudes and the growing sense of entitlement among my peers, and I HATE the trend I'm seeing. WAY too many people looking for free handouts."

Obama made your friends into lazy slugs. That's priceless. I'm sure it wasn't just bad parenting or alcoholism. Blame the government. Like these guys are out there falling over themselves to get fat and lazy on student loans or free health care. Let them go to the emergency room and learn a lesson or two!

And you see, they're probably not even motivated enough to go out and vote for the goose that lays that golden egg. Oh well.

I can understand how someone can disagree with Obama's policies -- I disagree with many of them. But can anyone tell me exactly what Mitt Romney stands for? Or where he stands on even one single issue? Am I missing something?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Nov 5, 2012 6:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Re: free government handouts

If Romney and Ryan win, all women in the USA who possess a uterus will be treated like terrorists. The same people who say government has no business forcing people to buy health insurance, the same people who think a woman's boss should have the final say in her health care, want to force women-terrorists seeking an abortion to submit to a trans-vaginal ultrasound.

ummm, sounds to me like that's the "docile Government staff forcing" American women go to a "docile Government run facility", and have "docile Government staff raping" pregnant women-terrorist with a trans-vaginal probe until they are satisfied! What do the GD Forum's female deadheads think about this?

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 5, 2012 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

The 2012 Republican Party platform calls for a constitutional amendment that would outlaw all abortions. No exceptions.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

No exceptions? wow, really? Please provide an actual link from the Platform and not just some facebook poster crap-piece you read. I heard the debates and the exceptions concerning abortion on rape & incest.

To women who use murder so as to enjoy their whore ass lifestyle, show some responsibility and shut your f'n legs, (edit)B! Don't take a penny of my taxes to pay for your infanticide, (edit)B!

Killing the unborn is real terrorism!


What do the GD Forum's female deadheads think about this?


This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2012-11-05 17:15:52

This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2012-11-05 17:41:28

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Let's keep it civil, and let's remember that half (or more) the responsibility for any pregnancy rests with males. Keep your zipper up!

And we can step back from abortion - which we all abhor - and note that Romney would defund Planned Parenthood completely, which provides cancer screenings, birth control, education etc.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

"We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children."

I don't see anything in there about exceptions. Feel free to educate me..

Here's the link: http://www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_We/

This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2012-11-05 17:58:30

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

The full text

The Sanctity and Dignity of Human Life

Faithful to the “self-evident” truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. We oppose using public revenues to promote or perform abortion or fund organizations which perform or advocate it and will not fund or subsidize health care which includes abortion coverage. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life. We oppose the non-consensual withholding or withdrawal of care or treatment, including food and water, from people with disabilities, including newborns, as well as the elderly and infirm, just as we oppose active and passive euthanasia and assisted suicide.

Republican leadership has led the effort to prohibit the barbaric practice of partial-birth abortion and permitted States to extend health care coverage to children before birth. We urge Congress to strengthen the Born Alive Infant Protection Act by enacting appropriate civil and criminal penalties on healthcare providers who fail to provide treatment and care to an infant who survives an abortion, including early induction delivery where the death of the infant is intended. We call for legislation to ban sex-selective abortions – gender discrimination in its most lethal form – and to protect from abortion unborn children who are capable of feeling pain; and we applaud U.S. House Republicans for leading the effort to protect the lives of pain-capable unborn children in the District of Columbia. We call for a ban on the use of body parts from aborted fetuses for research. We support and applaud adult stem cell research to develop lifesaving therapies, and we oppose the killing of embryos for their stem cells. We oppose federal funding of embryonic stem cell research.

We also salute the many States that have passed laws for informed consent, mandatory waiting periods prior to an abortion, and health-protective clinic regulation. We seek to protect young girls from exploitation through a parental consent requirement; and we affirm our moral obligation to assist, rather than penalize, women challenged by an unplanned pregnancy. We salute those who provide them with counseling and adoption alternatives and empower them to choose life, and we take comfort in the tremendous increase in adoptions that has followed Republican legislative initiatives.

So this is where you defer?
we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed.

I also read the full txt above, it mentions "pain-capable unborn children" I also oppose capital punishment and personally oppose all abortion.

Oh, and my other post was sincere, with a touch of sarcasm in that it's a shame that some with no morals actually vote. To hell with tax supported Planned Parenthood, let George Soros and private contributions pay for it. Oh and NPR also

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 5, 2012 11:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that to apply the 14th amendment to "unborn children" is the same as outlawing abortion in all circumstances. It sound real nice to extend personhood and citizenship to fetuses, but this sets up a situation where pregnant women will at best have to fight legal battles to have abortions that might save their lives.

This is not some abstract thing to me, someone I am close to was in a situation where an abortion might have made a difference in saving her life. She didn't have the abortion, partly because she didn't have accurate information about the cancer, and has a healthy child, but the disease advanced through her system during those intervening months and as a result she may not live much longer.

Banning abortion might make you feel good, but we ignore these stark realities at our own peril.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 5:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

did she want an abortion, but was refused one? Or did she want a healthy child and choose (by refusing chemo/radiation) to have that child?

That would have been her free choice and if that's what happened, she is a hero in my eyes.

How does she feel about it now? Does she still have prefered an abortion?

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 5, 2012 8:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

No, she never wanted one. But she never really had to make the choice because the doctor misdiagnosed her and didn't catch the cancer. They didn't find it until they were already performing an emergency c-section, at which point they also took out the cancer. The entire thing was rather emotional as you might imagine. My point, and one that she has made many times, is that she doesn't know what she would have done if she'd known, but hopes that she would have at least been given that choice.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I'll simply base my vote on a politicians view on infanticide...because it shows their true heart and morals.

To you youngins who go on a first date, cut to the chase and find out asap, "whats your view on abortian? your view on pre-marital sex?

(in other words, are you a whore and do you condone murder? pretty important for you guys with a brain above your waist)
A negative answer = immediate exit, stage left. Oh, and the term whore applies to both sexes

And to think some of that rubbish actually votes!

This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2012-11-05 17:44:59

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

If I'm going to respond to this coherently, you're going to need to tag the sarcastic parts and the sincere parts. Sorry.

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 10:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

line 1 - how I feel
line 2 - how I feel
line 3 - how I feel
line 4 - have done

line 5 - a tinge of sarcasm because I'm such a hater - lol (sarcasm)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Nov 5, 2012 6:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Re: "Free Handouts from Obama et al?"

"free pepper spray handed out to college kids" in 2011 for protesting tuition hikes at UC Davis
pepperspray.jpg?w=620

"free flash-bang grenade slammed into Marine vet Scott Olsen's head" as he protected OWS protesters in 2011
occupy_scott_olsen_AP111026_620x350.jpg

Mitt Romney's run for President is solely based on his "excellent business experience" that he will use to fix America. Where does the majority of Mitt Romney's business experience come from? Mitt Romney's business experience comes from his run as CEO of Bain Capital.

How did Mitt Romney best profile and market his Bain Capital investment outfit? Mitt and Ann Romney won't even tell Americans what's in their Tax Returns. It's their secret! What is the most telling Bain Capital statement that Mitt Romney made which indicates to all Americans what will happen when he becomes President of the USA?

In 1985 Romney described Bain's formation and showed how he viewed the firm's mission:
watch this YouTube video - 1:21 duration, says it all. Mitt Romney said:
"Bain Capital is an investment partnership which was formed to invest in start-up companies and ongoing companies... then to take an active hand in managing them and hopefully, five to eight years later, to harvest them [BY SELLING ALL THEIR ASSETS] at a significant profit."
I never said I was happy with Obama. He is guilty of giving the free handouts you mentioned to the big banks that failed during Dubya's presidency. Many regular people lost everything they had. Working people got nothing from what I saw. Wait til you see the "free Americana handouts" Romney and Ryan will be handing the millionaires and billionaires on Wall Street. Game Over!

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 6:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

here we go again...if you protest, simple...be aware of police reaction if you refuse to comply and purposely push their hot buttons. Btw, both Davis/UCD and Oakland have very liberal politicians in charge.

So go ahead and bump uglies with the police or just sit there and hope for the pepper spray and the resulting "outrage".

The retard police pepper spray reaction played into it. I would have just ignored the protesting fools. Oh well.

This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2012-11-05 14:53:38

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Nov 5, 2012 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

That's pure BS sheeple-talk, imvio (in my village idiot opinion). In their beginning years, The Grateful Dead were virtually 100 percent pure counterculture... NOT sheeple. And that's "how they did IT!"

13 Ways to Be a Sheeple (and guarantee you'll never tape anything)
-- written by Eduard Ezeanu

sheeple3.jpg

Rasta, I believe you epitomize the Sheeple profile perfectly! I'll take pepper spray over CNN any fucking day of the week. I rather be a fucking moron, and the village idiot in-chief.

01. Emulate Other People’s Goals in Life
02. Always Follow the Latest Trends
03. Buy Expensive Stuff just because it’s From Famous Brands
04. Hang Out With Mediocre People
05. Get All Your Information from Mainstream Media
06. Don’t Stay Too Well Informed
07. Adopt the Opinions of the Majority
08. Always Obey Authority Figures
09. Avoid Disapproval like the Plague
10. Reject Divergent Ideas by Default
11. Let Inertia Be Your Guide
12. Judge Others Based On Appearances and Stereotypes
13. If Your Life Sucks, Blame the System

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 8:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

01. Emulate Other People’s Goals in Life - nope, my goal is for peace of mind
02. Always Follow the Latest Trends - heavens no
03. Buy Expensive Stuff just because it’s From Famous Brands - I deplore buying PR "famous" crap. I usually buy generic and read all labels
04. Hang Out With Mediocre People - pretty much true (define mediocre...other than republicans - lol)
05. Get All Your Information from Mainstream Media - Nope, except for sports, no TV. Mainstream = lying dogs
06. Don’t Stay Too Well Informed - do too! nanana!
07. Adopt the Opinions of the Majority - the dumbed down majority? hell no!
08. Always Obey Authority Figures - nope. But I will comply cuz drama is drama and I hate pain
09. Avoid Disapproval like the Plague - ha! well I'm here commenting...
10. Reject Divergent Ideas by Default - define divergent...conservative? then that prob applies to you
11. Let Inertia Be Your Guide - only when jogging
12. Judge Others Based On Appearances and Stereotypes - no way Jose. I can discern a phoney in a hearbeat
13. If Your Life Sucks, Blame the System - nope, I take responsibility for any suckass life I have, however I despise govt control on my liberties, so Obama sucks too!

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 5, 2012 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

This is all I am going to say on this matter....

Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act into law. Within that law is a provision that strips Americans of their Constitutional 4th Amendment protections of due process and allows them to be apprehended without charge, and detained indefinitely without cause.

That is an unforgivable sin. 33 years ago in my commissioning oath I swore to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.....

At no time in my service did I ever imagine that measures would be put into place to declare American citizens "domestic enemies" without going through a deliberative 4th Amendment due process.

Unless that were to be done by a system that is apparently allowing such domestic enemies to function.

I simply cannot fathom why any rational thinking American (especially in this forum) would get your bowels in an uproar over what one candidate "MIGHT" do if elected and overlook what the other candidate HAS done - a candidate who has shamelessly eroded the Constitution. I suppose it all comes back to "Give me free shit and you can have my Constitutional rights."

Save your keyboards and your spleens - I will not respond to any post either supporting or decrying this one.

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Nov 5, 2012 7:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

Hey i'm all about learning new stuff every day so do me one kind favor and please point out which Title and Section of H.R. 1540 has a written provision that strips Americans of their Constitutional 4th Amendment protections, this is one wordy document and i haven't the bandwidth to read it from beginning to end.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr1540enr/pdf/BILLS-112hr1540enr.pdf

H.R. 1540

One Hundred Twelfth Congress of the United States of America

AT THE FIRST SESSION

Begun and held at the City of Washington on Wednesday,
the fifth day of January, two thousand and eleven

An Act

To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2012 for military activities of the Department of Defense, for military construction, and for defense activities of the Department of Energy, to prescribe military personnel strengths for such fiscal year, and for other purposes.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 5, 2012 8:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

Section 1021

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr1540enr/pdf/BILLS-112hr1540enr.pdf

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 5, 2012 8:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

The section you cite does not explicitly strip US citizens of their rights. In fact, the measures are specifically limited to the people who planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks and their supporters, who I suppose could be US citizens in some cases. But let's be clear: This covers the exact same territory as the AUMF under Bush and is specifically-tailored to 9/11 and Al Qaeda.

In fact, it says quite clearly that "Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."


This post was modified by snow_and_rain on 2012-11-06 04:47:20

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

Bullshit snow. Do a little more homework. Just because your ass hat of a president issues a signing statement saying that it's an extension of AUMF. If you are so foolish as to link NDAA to nothing more than an extension of AUMF then you should probably know that the POS in the White House and his cronies have held the position that AUMF ALWAYS authorized rounding up citizen-suspects and holding them without trial. So of course Obama is going to wink and chuckle and say "It's just an extension........." Which is what he has wanted all along.

>In fact, it says quite clearly that "Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."<

Yippee - this wording is intentionally and deliberately misleading and you know it. You roll this out as if American citizens would be protected by preservation of existing Supreme Court decision vis a vis habeas corpus. It fails miserably because there are no SC decisions or precedent that provide the full measure of habeas corpus protection to citizens or legal aliens accused within our borders - only because apprehension and detention has not yet occurred.

NDAA is much less about what it says and allows as much as it is about what it doesn't say or doesn't explicitly disallow.

Here's a good breakdown

Sec. 1021(e) reads as follows:

AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

Consider that NDAA, like all statutes, was drafted by a committee and its language is the compromised outcome of hotly-contested negotiations. It could have said: "Nothing is this act shall be construed as authorizing the indefinite detention of United States citizens or their classification as enemy combatants." The fact that it doesn't is significant.

The Supreme Court last visited the executive detention of citizens in the 2004 case of Hamdi v. Rumsfeld. Hamdi is, effectively, the "existing law" to which the Act refers. Hamdi, a U.S. citizen, was captured in Afghanistan. His father filed a lawsuit seeking his release. When this suit was rejected by a lower federal court, Hamdi appealed to the Supreme Court. Although the Court ultimately permitted Hamdi to file his lawsuit, with eight of the nine justices agreeing that he had the right to do so, the Justices could not agree on the legal analysis. Deeply fractured opinions like this leave the state of the law confused. And while some believe Hamdi clearly prohibits the indefinite detention of an American citizen, not everyone agrees.

According to media sources, proponents of NDAA (Senators Levin and Graham) cited Hamdi as authority in support of the proposition that American citizens CAN be designated enemy combatants and held indefinitely. If they are correct, then the NDAA reaffirms this executive authority, and does not violate the Constitution.

Of course this is nonsense. Don't lose the forest for the legalese. The 5th Amendment continues to state unequivocally that:

"No person shall...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..."

And the 6th Amendment, that:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury...and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence."

In my universe, this is the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, and it requires that U.S. citizens be tried in criminal courts.

http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/02/06/ndaa-sections-1021-and-1022-scary-potential/

Then there was this tricky little sequence.....

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/18/local/la-me-gs-national-defense-authorization-ruling-20120518

http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/05/16/46550.htm

Only to be followed by this: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/13082-appeals-court-extends-ndaa-indefinite-detention-powers

You don't get to cherry pick elements of NDAA to excuse the actions of and support your piece of shit candidate and then get a free pass to turn around and try to convince anyone that the Republican platform extending 14th Amendment rights to the unborn is a crystal clear statement that ALL abortion will be outlawed. That's disingenuous, but that's nothing new is it?

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 6, 2012 5:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

"Just because your ass hat of a president issues a signing statement saying that it's an extension of AUMF."

I'm not a fan of the NDAA, but let's not get carried away. I'm not talking about the signing statement. I'm talking about the specific section of the law that you yourself pointed us to. A cursory reading of the opening lines clearly demonstrates the legal basis and the limitations of the law. I'm not arguing that it doesn't apply to US citizens, but it does clearly state that they must have been involved in the 9/11 attacks or supporters of Al Qaeda or the Taliban.

"SEC. 1021. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF
THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS
PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Congress affirms that the authority of the
President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107–40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note) includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition under the law of war.
(b) COVERED PERSONS.—A covered person under this section
is any person as follows:
(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided
the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001,
or harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported
al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged
in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

With respect to the Republican Party's position on abortion, I stand by what I said. The platform (not Romney's position, the Party platform) calls for a constitutional amendment granting 14th amendment protections for the "unborn." Granting these protections to fetuses will make abortion legally equivalent to murder. Do you disagree? Feel free to point me to the parts that call for exceptions, because I don't see any. You say it's disingenuous? Show me where it calls for exceptions or explain how this is implied? I'm not seeing it/

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Nov 6, 2012 7:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

DEVILS ADVOCATE HERE

but it could be argued that IF murder is "the unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse" (and therefore always morally objectionable and wrongful) then the question of whether or not an act is murder must logically precede the question of whether or not we are free to perform the act.


It could further be argued that science/philosophy/law/medicine have thus far failed in determining whether an unborn fetus qualifies as a "human being" beyond a reasonable doubt. Therefore the possibility remains that a fetus IS a human being and that abortion does qualify as murder. Since this is as yet undetermined, we cannot yet arrive at the question of our freedom to perform the act. It would be like shooting at a dark form that MAY be your game and MAY be a person. The extraneous circumstances (in this line of thinking) would only come into account once we are SURE that it is not, in fact, murder, since no extraneous circumstances (by the definition of provided above) can possibly justify murder.

Thus even if its only a 1% chance that the dark form you're aiming at is a person and not a buck, you don't take the shot (even to feed your starving children).

I'm not saying this is how I think, or how anyone should think. But this argument was once presented to me (by a very very clever man with very very ugly opinions) and I'd like a hand in untangling what seems to be extraordinarily sound logic.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 6, 2012 7:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

If you look back at every post I have made here on the forum you will not find a single post of mine that discusses my stance on abortion. I won't elaborate on specifics.

To your question, I don't agree that granting 14th Amendment protection to the unborn necessarily makes abortion legally equivalent to murder because you would have to have provisions for conditions where the mother's life is threatened or the wrenching case we saw a few years ago where a mother was carrying twins with a genetic condition and had to choose which of the twins to abort to ensure her survival and the survival of the remaining twin.

Very little in the law is absolute, so provisions for exceptions could be written into the law.

I also see feel we have a moral responsibility to advocate for the unborn to some degree. Abortion as a method of dealing with a pregnancy because it's an unwanted inconvenience is unthinkable. I get it for rape, incest, life of the mother cases - but even in rape cases, I think there should be some deliberative process of deciding. I have two friends (that I know of) who conceived after a rape and chose to keep the child and are exceptionally happy. I also understand that some would choose otherwise - and I support their right to choose in that instance. It's a tough balance to advocate for the unborn while preserving a woman's choice. In short, I think Roe v. Wade is extreme, but I also think that making all abortion illegal is equally extreme.

Then there's the issue of the 10th Amendment. I strongly feel that abortion should be a state decision. I don't agree that abortions should be funded by a single penny of Federal taxpayer dollars. I love the firestorm of discussion that comes up surrounding Planned Parenthood. PP actually provides a much needed service wrt pre-natal care, screenings, and contraceptive counseling. I'd be hard pressed to come up with a number, but I seriously doubt a sizeable percentage of PP's funding directly supports abortions. I would completely disconnect funding support for abortions from health and insurance plans that employers have to provide to their workers - almost entirely from a 10th Amendment perspective.

Back to NDAA, the problem with your argument that "it does clearly state that they must have been involved in the 9/11 attacks or supporters of Al Qaeda or the Taliban." is that it doesn't "clearly" state that. Here's the rub - Sec 1021.b.2 is deliberately vague and does not define "substantially supported". Supporters would argue that it is subjective, but would be an objective common sense decision. There is nothing about "subjective" law that is unsupported by existing legal precedent. That is dangerous and where the Constitutional 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments have been gutted wrt NDAA.

My biggest issue with those who defend NDAA by saying "Well that part was just written poorly" or Obama's assertion that "Well, I'll sign this, but I don't like and I'll never do it to an American citizen" (I paraphrased) is pretty easy to resolve. If it was "just poorly written" then send the fucking thing back to committee and rewrite it or even better, Obama should have demonstrated real leadership and said "This fucking thing is bullshit, I will not sign any legislation into law that circumvents the Constitutional rights of American citizens. Send this back to the House and Senate, rewrite it and then get back to me." If he had done that, the election would have been over on 31 December 2011.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Nov 6, 2012 8:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Yo Mando, wait a minute, not so fast ....

Thanks. I would merely ask that Republican platform simply state that they do not intend to outlaw abortions in those cases -- life of the mother, rape, incest -- if that's indeed what their position is.

If what applying the 14th amendment to the "unborn" does is make a fetus indistinguishable, legally speaking, from a born human being, with the same rights, then it's hard to imagine how a subsequent law allowing this new "person" to be killed simply because his/her father is a rapist or his/her parents are brother and sister would be constitutional. Or do you see it differently? That's why your argument -- which I believe reflects your personal position -- rings hollow to me. I don't see room for these exceptions the way that the Republican platform envisions this thing.

I would also like it if Congress and Obama would be more explicit that they do not intend to snatch Mandojammer in the middle of the night and send him to Djibouti for interrogation (although I'm not totally sure that you're not asking for it).

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 5, 2012 10:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: "Big Daddy Love" @ House of Blues & Brews fundraiser

Rick, I'm indebted to you once again for hipping me to a very cool band. I really enjoyed the jams and the fundraiser was a ton of fun. I'm definitely planning on going to Hoss's on Thursday to see "Big Daddy Love again.

Thank you for the chili and chilis...

Photobucket

Cliff and Mando w/Rhonda from TV43 at Virginia Museum of Contemporary Art fundraiser (11/4/12

Photobucket

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 5, 2012 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: "Big Daddy Love" and hot peppers

Cliff - I checked with my lawyers and I am allowed to respond to this post as it doesn't refer to the "other" stuff in the thread.

I too had a great time watching the stuffed shirts swilling their wine and loosening up and enjoying a kick ass set from Big Daddy Love. Thursday night is running about 60/40 yes and it's all dependent on what time they start. I'll try and find out and let you know as soon as I can.

Have you gotten in to the chili and the pepper paste yet?

For the curious, here's the pepper break down.

The 7 larger red peppers in the top right are bhut jolokia Ghost peppers - the third or fourth hottest pepper in the world with a Scoville Heat Unit (SHU) rating of around 1.2 million. I ate one on a self dare (note, never do that to yourself) and I went deaf for about 5 minutes. I thought I was going to die. Mrs. Mando questioned her judgement on a decision she made 29 years ago, my daughter was mortified that she has my genes, my son thought it was "cool". I will never do that again until next fall at Festy after bourbon and apple pie moonshine.

The three dark, round chilis in the bottom right are Black Pearl - about the same heat as a jalapeno, more of a citrus crispiness to it.

The small white peppers are white habaneros - they are some of the best tasting peppers I have ever grown. They have a superb smokiness along with the traditional habanero flavor. They will kick your ass - they are hot, around 400,000 SHUs.

The seven smaller red peppers and the two slightly elongated purple peppers on the left are Chinese 5 Color Aji peppers. In between a tabasco and a serrano as far as heat, great flavor.

The four small purple peppers in the top center are hot purple beauty peppers. Similar in heat and flavor to the Black Pearls.

The gem in the top left is a chocolate habanero. Similar in taste to the white habs, but even smokier. It is excruciatingly hot.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Nov 5, 2012 3:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Big Daddy Love' and hot peppers

Mando that's the beauty of life. People as diverse as those of us here at the LMA can rationally discuss our differences and revel in our like interests...food, beer, Scotch(blended for me please), Grateful Dead just to name a few.


Trinidad Moruga Scorpion ranks as high as 2,009,231 the Scoville scale. The world's hottest commercially available chili pepper is still the Naga Bhut Jolokia.

TMS seeds available here...http://tinyurl.com/a2vss55



This post was modified by user unknown on 2012-11-05 23:06:15

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Nov 5, 2012 5:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Big Daddy Love' and hot peppers

Btw "bhut" means ghost in Nepali. But the sense of a ghost is different, so it's not like saying Casper the Ghost Chili ... they don't "haunt" so much as cause trouble, like demons, but if you're lucky they'll also do your housework and fieldwork. But then they may eat you. Tricky devils.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 5, 2012 5:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Big Daddy Love' and hot peppers

AR - What do the Nepalese say about "ghosts" causing 'significant emotional events'? Because I most certainly had one when I ate a Ghost pepper. It caused troube, it haunted me, it rearranged my esophagus, it cleaned my large and small intestines and that was in the first 45 seconds. The heat and pain built for about 15 minutes and then gradually subsided.

It was freakin' awesome......

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Nov 5, 2012 5:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 'Big Daddy Love' and hot peppers

Dunno, but to get past ghosts, grab the tail of a cow. That's what I've heard. Did you not have a cow handy?

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Nov 4, 2012 10:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWQ5GZy6egg

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Back To your cave Romney:

http://tinyurl.com/BackToYourCaveRomney

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Poster: adks12020 Date: Nov 5, 2012 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Ok. I usually come to this forum to get away from politics but since it's being discussed here goes:

1. Romney's business acumen in no way makes him qualified for the Presidency. His business experience shows he can make money; it doesn't show he can do that for the benefit of the majority which is the job of the president. Also, I believe (and could be wrong) that Hoover and G.W. Bush were the only other Presidents that were businessmen before they ran for president...enough said.

2. The economy isn't great; I have no argument with that. However, it is gradually growing and at a faster rate than the majority of Europe. Also, China's growth is slowing significantly. I'll take where we are going now over the slash and burn tactics of the right any day. Austerity is not working well anywhere in Europe and it won't here. Neither will cutting taxes just for the sake of placating people while at the same time increasing the military budget which is already more expensive than the next 15 countries in the world combined.

3. Various news organizations have pointed out in recent weeks that the vast majority of the world want Obama to win; this includes most countries in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East (minus Isreal..which I couldn't give to shits about at this point). They favor the stability and pragmatism Obama brings as opposed to the unknown with Romney. Maintaining the confidence of the rest of the world is extremely important to world security and the world economy seeing as we are still the only superpower in the world.

4. Romney doesn't have the balls to stand up to the far right in his party which will give them a lot of influence. That scares the crap out of me.

5. Whomever gets elected will likely nominate at least one, maybe two, supreme court judges. Romney has vowed to overturn Roe v. Wade. Also scary if he is appointing judges.

6. I'm sick and tired of the people talking about our rights being trampled on telling people how to live their lives and wish they would stop that shit. Electing Romney won't help that.

I'm no fan of some of the things that Obama has done. As Mando said he signed the National Defense Authorization Act..not cool. He also made some very questionable decisions regarding the bank bailouts. However, on the whole I think he has done pretty well and without a better choice that's where I'm leaning.

As an aside my vote for president doesn't mean squat: I live in reliably blue New York.

This is important:

People really need to focus more attention on the lower level races. State government elections and Congressional elections are actually much more important than the Presidential one in a lot of ways. They are often much closer and your vote will carry more weight...plus they while the President or Governor may lay out policy proposals, the legislators write the bills that become law. State laws are often the templates for national laws. Just keep that in mind when voting tomorrow.

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Nov 5, 2012 1:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

"3. Various news organizations have pointed out in recent weeks that the vast majority of the world want Obama to win; this includes most countries in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East (minus Isreal..which I couldn't give to shits about at this point). They favor the stability and pragmatism Obama brings as opposed to the unknown with Romney. Maintaining the confidence of the rest of the world is extremely important to world security and the world economy seeing as we are still the only superpower in the world."

Did it ever occur to you that other countries may want us weak. You can not worry about pleasing the rest of the world if you are going to lead. You can never please everyone.

This is true for either canadate

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Nov 5, 2012 5:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

sheeze Louise! I just scanned thru this for a good hour...VERY interesting (and I wasn't wearing my tin foil hat)

the Rothschilds and their banking/monetary world control.
Oh boy! I love a good conspiracy and this one's a doozy!

Make mental note, beware of Ashkenazi Jews...so anywho, check this out >>

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 6, 2012 7:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I am hoping you are joking. This is a highly offensive antisemitic conspiracy site.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 6, 2012 8:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

No matter who you want to win, I think we can all agree that the outcome shouldn't be decided by shenanigans that would make a mockery of our most sacred Democratic right...which is why we should all be concerned about this:


http://www.salon.com/2012/11/05/ohio_republicans_sneak_risky_software_onto_voting_machines


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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 6, 2012 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I for one would attach more legitimacy to these kinds of articles if they had been written in March.

'Republican' and 'Democrat' are interchangeable in every single one of these "alarming" cases.

No one is so sanguine as to think that only Republicans would commit voter fraud. Except Democrats.

And vice versa.....

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Nov 6, 2012 10:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

I still have trouble wrapping my head around what The Governors of Ohio and Florida (and their Secretaries of State) have done to limit voting hours this year. The lines for early voting this year, especially in Ohio, are often many hours long. Why don't they want people there voting?

Re: NDAA, drone killings, disappearing people, secret prisons... Once we started to torture people and condone it, the door was forever opened to accepting anything illegal in the USA you could imagine.

Re: The Federal Reserve... Bankers should be Federal Government Employees. They should be treated and paid like Air Traffic Controllers, for example.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 6, 2012 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Mando,

I'm not saying Republicans are the only ones apt to commit fraud...simply that in this specific case in Ohio--which could decide the election--these last minute "experimental" software add-ons to the voting machines have been green-lighted by Ohio's REPUBLICAN Sec. of State in violation of state law which says a certified state board must approve any voting machine changes...clearly this has not been the case and it smacks of potential major trouble.

Read the whole article--the author states he's not alleging voter tampering--only that his and other reporters' inquires have gone un-answered and ignored by the state's GOP Sec. of State. One doesn't have to be a Democrat to ask WTF?????

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 6, 2012 12:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

GC -

I hear you. I just find it fascinating that these are issues now. The timing of it begs the question of what is going on behind the curtain, who's pulling the strings and what master is being served.

Is the Ohio Sec State that much of an idiot that he/she wouldn't think that the timing of these software updates wouldn't fall under intense scrutiny? If the vote goes for Romney the left will howl. If the vote goes for Obama, the right will howl.

Maybe the law is specific to voting machine hardware only and doesn't apply to software and this is nothing other than what it is.

I'm an Occam's Razor kind of guy, but this one has me intrigued. I can spin theories in my head where it makes sense the both sides benefit from different outcomes. With any luck, Ohio's electoral college votes won't play into this debacle - but I think SDH is right. I don't think we are going to know who the next President is tomorrow morning.

Life will go on and we'll all be back though....

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Nov 6, 2012 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Oy....I don't think I can handle another debacle re: Florida 2000...I was going to stay up tonight at least to watch Daily Show b/c it's live at 11pm est, but I think I'm better off trying to sleep instead. I have a crazy early wake up time for work and I agree it's unlikely i'll be rewarded w/knowing who won just by staying up late.


"Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few...don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools..."

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 6, 2012 11:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Well, I'm afraid that because of issues like this one, regardless of who actually wins tonight, the ensuing blizzard of lawsuits will make the Hanging Chad debacle seem trivial.

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Poster: adks12020 Date: Nov 6, 2012 6:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's time to decide - move forward or fall back?

Actually it did occur to me that they may want us weak....until I listened to what they said and used some common sense. People in other countries may not like us but they recognize the need for a superpower to exist...and we are the only one left.

All the people I've seen interviewed on the matter from around the world (including journalists, business leaders, politicians, etc.) specifically said they want U.S. to continue to be a superpower and fear what will happen if we no longer are.

They see our economy growing faster than theirs and they know that their economies all depend on how well ours does. They want that growth, tepid as it may be, to continue.

They want us to continue to focus on international issues other than Israel and Iran. They don't want us to increase our military spending which would hurt our growth. China (who hold a ton of our debt and is a huge trading partner) doesn't want to negotiate with someone that is constantly calling them evil. Obama has been firm with (see substandard steel story from a few weeks ago) them but not running around talking shit every chance he gets. That's called diplomacy.

Like I said, I'm ok with Obama, I don't love him. The fact is Romney turns off much of the world and that is an important factor in my vote since this is a world economy.